1 IDUGDB2-L.ORG /home/listserv/home/db2-l April 2010, week 5
2 41 49_AUTO: Gab Gambassi is away (returning 03/05/2010)12_Gab Gambassi20_gabriele@NZ1.IBM.COM31_Thu, 29 Apr 2010 21:04:22 +1200486_US-ASCII I am out of the office until 03/05/2010.
For urgent matters please contact:
my collegaue Art Balingit
Phone 09-359-8417
Mobile 021-464-958
Mail balingit@nz1.ibm.com
or my Team Leader , Joshua Joshua
Phone 09-359-8523
Mobile 021-2442673
Mail joshuaj@nz1.ibm.com
Thanks for you patience.
Note: This is an automated response to your message "DB2-L Digest - 28 Apr
2010 to 29 Apr 2010 (#2010-120)" sent on 29/4/10 17:00:00. [...]69_OFFC5AD5E9.5E99160D-ONCC257714.0031D6CB-CC257714.0031D6CC@nz1.ibm.com
44 560 55_Re: Getting Ready for DB2 10: The Competitive Advantage11_Dave Beulke19_dave@DAVEBEULKE.COM31_Thu, 29 Apr 2010 08:43:10 -0400588_us-ascii Hi Everyone,
I agree that the increasing licensing costs of DB2 10 are a hard cost and
everyone is looking at the total cost infrastructure. Unfortunately only
the first paragraph of the blog post gets posted in DB2-L.
The point of the entire blog post is that sooner or later your shop is going
to adopt DB2 10 and there are some things that can be done now within your
DB2 systems and applications that will help make the transition to DB2 10
smoother. The blog post points to the adoption of SMS and the improved more
granular security in [...]35_001b01cae799$87388040$95a980c0$@com
605 601 55_Re: Getting Ready for DB2 10: The Competitive Advantage10_Roger Hecq18_Roger.Hecq@UBS.COM31_Thu, 29 Apr 2010 14:32:26 -0400394_us-ascii Visit our website at http://www.ubs.com
This message contains confidential information and is intended only
for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you
should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please
notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this
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1207 88 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?12_Myron Miller22_myronwmiller@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 29 Apr 2010 21:12:01 -0700549_us-ascii But there are lots of shops that aren't big enough or for one reason or another are not datasharing and sysplex. Then it's an outage. And that outage can be expensive to the shop.
Let's face it. One of the major reasons not to do the upgrade really is the ever increasing costs of the software and third party products. Adding in the cost of upgrading all the third party products makes the upgrade not as simple as you make it seem. I've seen cases where it took more time and labor to upgrade the third party products than it [...]44_790221.50698.qm@web112101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com
1296 29 41_Garth Oldham/Australia/IBM is unavailable12_Garth Oldham19_vcgarth@AU1.IBM.COM31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 16:05:09 +1000462_US-ASCII I will be out of the office starting 29/04/2010 and will not return until
07/05/2010.
I am unavailable to attend to your email I am out of the office at a client
site and have no access to IBM email during business hours. For urgent
requests please email the DBDCSUP@AU1.IBM.COM mailbox. For any Requested
product maintenance please send the request to DBDCSUP@AU1.IBM.COM it will
be sent to a senior DB2 person for approval. [...]69_OF88D2F910.4514CC16-ONCA257715.00216E3D-CA257715.00216E3D@au1.ibm.com
1326 29 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?11_Ted MacNEIL18_eamacneil@YAHOO.CA31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 07:18:27 +0000448_- >But there are lots of shops that aren't big enough or for one reason or another are not datasharing and sysplex.
>Then it's an outage.
>And that outage can be expensive to the shop.
SYSPLEX and datasharing are insurance policies, and in most (not all) cases, they are cheaper than the outage.
If an outage is 'too' expensive, then maybe sharing should be investigated as an option.
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas! [...]105_2012174225-1272611895-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1572207430-@bda026.bisx.prod.on.blackberry
1356 100 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?10_Sysdba AHE18_Sysdba.AHE@TNT.COM31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 11:08:57 +0100438_US-ASCII There is a lot to be said for taking the stance that "The system performs
well, meets all my requirements and I don't need to update".
This is not just true of DB2 - all software can be treated this way.
In fact because of the potential for introducing incompatibilities
updating some can force you to upgrade others.
If you believe the opening statement then the safest approach is to update
nothing. [...]72_OF239DC12C.42C23F40-ON80257715.00362A0F-80257715.0037C08F@gb.tntpost.com
1457 560 52_Re: [z/OS] access path is changed by adding constant37_=?iso-8859-2?B?UG9zcO25aWwgRHW5YW4=?=17_DPospisil@CSAS.CZ31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 13:50:00 +0200673_iso-8859-2 Please could you explain me why the access path is changed by adding constant into select-clause?
Thanks in advance
dusan
SELECT T.CISUCT, T.KODSLU, T.VARSLU, T.KLID, T.KLTYP,T.TERMOD,T.TERMDO
,VALUE (S.TEXT,'?') ,VALUE (V.TEXT,'?')
, XTMPZRU
FROM
(SELECT CISUCT, KODSLU, VARSLU, KLID, KLTYP,TERMOD,TERMDO
, 'A' XTMPZRU
FROM SPD2VE.Q1T3A
UNION ALL
SELECT CISUCT, KODSLU, VARSLU, KLID, KLTYP,TERMOD,TERMDO
, 'Z' XTMPZRU
FROM SPD2VE.Q1T3Z) T
LEFT OUTER JOIN SPD2VE.SPTSNU S ON S.TYPE = 70
AND S.ID = T.KODSLU
LEFT OUTER JOIN SPD2VE.SPTSNU V ON V.TYPE = T.KODSLU
AND V.ID = T.VARSLU
WHERE T.CISUCT = ? [...]58_0675446363E09A4EBE4CCF8D3AD7814F04547F15@MAIL1.cen.csin.cz
2018 271 52_Re: [z/OS] access path is changed by adding constant11_Roy Boxwell16_R.Boxwell@SEG.DE31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 16:17:49 +0200538_ISO-8859-1 SELECT T.CISUCT, T.KODSLU, T.VARSLU, T.KLID, T.KLTYP,T.TERMOD,T.TERMDO
,VALUE (S.TEXT,'?') ,VALUE (V.TEXT,'?')
, XTMPZRU
FROM
(SELECT CISUCT, KODSLU, VARSLU, KLID, KLTYP,TERMOD,TERMDO
, 'A' XTMPZRU
FROM SPD2VE.Q1T3A
UNION ALL
SELECT CISUCT, KODSLU, VARSLU, KLID, KLTYP,TERMOD,TERMDO
, 'Z' XTMPZRU
FROM SPD2VE.Q1T3Z) T
LEFT OUTER JOIN SPD2VE.SPTSNU S ON S.TYPE = 70
AND S.ID = T.KODSLU
LEFT OUTER JOIN SPD2VE.SPTSNU V ON V.TYPE = T.KODSLU
AND V.ID = T.VARSLU
WHERE T.CISUCT = ? [...]64_OF2A702DD9.AF4380E0-ONC1257715.004E4BFA-C1257715.004E8929@seg.de
2290 109 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?13_Mick P Graley16_mgraley2@CSC.COM31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:44:43 +0100605_US-ASCII In Dave's post "Getting Ready for DB2 10: The Competitive Advantage" he
says "sooner or later your shop is going to adopt DB2 10". I agree with
Myron here. I know of one customer where it is very unlikely that they will
"adopt DB2 10" as they are already looking to re-platform their mainframe
applications just from a cost perspective. Some of these applications have
been running on mainframe DB2 for over 20 years, but they are SO unhappy
with the mainframe charges that they are looking to re-platform. Reading
this list it doesn't seem to be uncommon and mainframe [...]65_OF37AFBA03.CB1E7035-ON80257715.0050D731-80257715.0050FFB7@csc.com
2400 58 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?10_Fred Edgar18_fredgarx@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 08:56:57 -0700585_us-ascii You are not alone. Sad, but true.
--- On Fri, 4/30/10, Mick P Graley wrote:
> From: Mick P Graley
> Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Why do a DB2 Upgrade?
> To: DB2-L@IDUGDB2-L.ORG
> Date: Friday, April 30, 2010, 9:44 AM
> In Dave's post "Getting Ready for DB2
> 10: The Competitive Advantage" he
> says "sooner or later your shop is going to adopt DB2 10".
> I agree with
> Myron here. I know of one customer where it is very
> unlikely that they will
> "adopt DB2 10" as they are already looking to [...]43_258145.65940.qm@web30204.mail.mud.yahoo.com
2459 72 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?12_Myron Miller22_myronwmiller@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 11:29:17 -0700428_us-ascii Not if the size of the machine and cost of extra machines outweighs the probability of the outage and it's associated costs. For people with a single small machine it isn't worth it to expend the cost to go to sysplex.
________________________________
From: Ted MacNEIL
To: DB2-L@IDUGDB2-L.ORG
Sent: Fri, April 30, 2010 3:18:27 AM
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Why do a DB2 Upgrade? [...]44_362571.48354.qm@web112115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com
2532 136 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?12_Myron Miller22_myronwmiller@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 11:38:39 -0700420_us-ascii Why do you think so many shops are still running Windows XP rather than Vista or Windows 7? Costs of upgrades. Most shops will address the issue at some point, but not necessarily. I've seen shops literally buy all the old obsolete hardware in the world just for spare parts to keep the system running on that hardware rather than upgrade. The upgrade costs were too much. They rewrote the system instead. [...]44_825212.38018.qm@web112105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com
2669 412 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?13_Taddei, Cathy27_Cathy.Taddei@PACIFICORP.COM31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 11:49:39 -0700536_us-ascii I tried taking that "I don't need to update" stance when my husband wanted to upgrade my G4 Powerbook from Tiger to Leopard. I remonstrated and stalled for nearly a year, but he finally prevailed this week. I had to upgrade a couple of programs, and threw away some that I decided I didn't really need. It wasn't as bad as I had feared -- a lot of my fears stemmed from being an early adopter of OS/X back in 2002, but things have improved a lot since then. I didn't have to spend very much on software upgrades, although [...]64_927FE8790B320742927BCF9ADF7AE48A18F2B42AE6@PDXMAIL.pacificorp.us
3082 362 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?13_Taddei, Cathy27_Cathy.Taddei@PACIFICORP.COM31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 11:53:24 -0700454_us-ascii We have a single 630 MIP machine. The biggest costs of sysplex were the ICF engine and extra DASD for logs and such. We found it not only worth it, but essential to be on equal footing with the other platforms and their redundant server clusters.
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:DB2-L@IDUGDB2-L.ORG] On Behalf Of Myron Miller
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 11:29 AM
To: DB2-L@IDUGDB2-L.ORG
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Why do a DB2 Upgrade? [...]64_927FE8790B320742927BCF9ADF7AE48A18F2B42AF0@PDXMAIL.pacificorp.us
3445 326 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?0_24_carol.sutfin@REGIONS.COM31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 14:26:05 -0500388_ISO-8859-1 "Manager"
It's not broken, why change now?
works until something breaks and you cannot get support from the vendor.
Then you are on a fast track to get current with the software in order to
get IBM support again.
Been there, done that.
It's not fun and also generates long nights on the weekends.
Better to keep up and relatively current. [...]71_OFDFCD9C80.49258E06-ON86257715.006A399E-86257715.006AC21B@corp.rgbk.com
3772 41 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?11_Ted MacNEIL18_eamacneil@YAHOO.CA31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 19:45:32 +0000359_- >Not if the size of the machine and cost of extra machines outweighs the probability of the outage and it's associated costs.
>For people with a single small machine it isn't worth it to expend the cost to go to sysplex.
You can't have it both ways.
The original statement I'd responded to said an outage was too expensive to upgrade DB2. [...]105_1415070880-1272656721-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1817528949-@bda026.bisx.prod.on.blackberry
3814 454 52_Re: [z/OS] access path is changed by adding constant37_=?iso-8859-2?B?UG9zcO25aWwgRHW5YW4=?=17_DPospisil@CSAS.CZ31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:53:53 +0200823_iso-8859-2 Thanks for your suggestion but the access path has not changed
dusan
________________________________
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:DB2-L@IDUGDB2-L.ORG] On Behalf Of Roy Boxwell
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 4:18 PM
To: DB2-L@IDUGDB2-L.ORG
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] [z/OS] access path is changed by adding constant
SELECT T.CISUCT, T.KODSLU, T.VARSLU, T.KLID, T.KLTYP,T.TERMOD,T.TERMDO
,VALUE (S.TEXT,'?') ,VALUE (V.TEXT,'?')
, XTMPZRU
FROM
(SELECT CISUCT, KODSLU, VARSLU, KLID, KLTYP,TERMOD,TERMDO
, 'A' XTMPZRU
FROM SPD2VE.Q1T3A
UNION ALL
SELECT CISUCT, KODSLU, VARSLU, KLID, KLTYP,TERMOD,TERMDO
, 'Z' XTMPZRU
FROM SPD2VE.Q1T3Z) T
LEFT OUTER JOIN SPD2VE.SPTSNU S ON S.TYPE = 70
AND S.ID = T.KODSLU
LEFT OUTER JOIN SPD2VE.SPTSNU V ON V.TYPE [...]58_0675446363E09A4EBE4CCF8D3AD7814F05CC38B6@MAIL1.cen.csin.cz
4269 35 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?11_Ted MacNEIL18_eamacneil@YAHOO.CA31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 19:55:22 +0000439_- >But when the pricing structures and total upgrade costs start to get to be unreasonable, especially in these economic times, then businesses are going to look at the bottom line first.
That has to be tempered with experience, and the not so common 'common sense'.
The definition of reasonably current can also be vague.
We had a definition mentioning that we were to stay within 6 months of the 'current' version. [...]104_767457341-1272657309-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1199369863-@bda026.bisx.prod.on.blackberry
4305 33 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?11_Ted MacNEIL18_eamacneil@YAHOO.CA31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 20:02:02 +0000304_- >The biggest costs of sysplex were the ICF engine and extra DASD for logs and such.
Those aren't the most expensive of components.
It's been a long time since I've been involved in costing, but the last I checked a specialty engine was around 75K USD (OTC), and DASD was pennies per GB. [...]105_1388048251-1272657710-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1614162372-@bda026.bisx.prod.on.blackberry
4339 268 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?12_Isaac Yassin20_yassini@BEZEQINT.NET31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 23:41:33 +0300356_iso-8859-1 BTDTGTS :-)
When it breaks, the @#$% hits the fan ...
Who is going to explain being out of business for x days /
hours
How much the free publicity that your business gets is worth
to
you?
How much do you want to pay in compensation? lost deals?
Lawyers fees ? Regulator's fines ?
I can tell you more .... [...]42_20100430234133.FYU13399@mas22.bezeqint.net
4608 312 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?7_Ed Long19_rdhm99a@PRODIGY.NET31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 13:42:10 -0700373_iso-8859-1 Very interesting discussion.
The steepening cost curve on upgrades - remember V8 invalidating all pre-existing processors-, the cautious attitude towards innovation - things seem to happen on LUW and Oracle long before Z sees them - and the variability in IBM responsiveness even if you have a contract - makes the upgrade proposal an ever tougher sell. [...]43_452094.44241.qm@web80204.mail.mud.yahoo.com
4921 93 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?13_Taddei, Cathy27_Cathy.Taddei@PACIFICORP.COM31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 13:49:10 -0700536_us-ascii I don't want to get too specific, but specialty engines seem to cost more nowadays, over $200k. However, one nice thing about that is whenever we upgrade the machine, the specialty engine is upgraded for free. Also, we spent a little on some extra memory, so we could liberally populate our coupling facility. I did not mention education; we educated ourselves, but had one person on board with hands on data sharing experience. If you don't have that, then expect to pay something for education or professional services. [...]64_927FE8790B320742927BCF9ADF7AE48A18F2B42C4D@PDXMAIL.pacificorp.us
5015 31 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?11_Ted MacNEIL18_eamacneil@YAHOO.CA31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 22:18:42 +0000511_- >I think that mainframe shops of just about any size could benefit from parallel sysplex. It removes contingencies such as "software upgrades create an outage" or "we can't host that on the mainframe because they IPL periodically".
And, LINUX, UNIX stay up all the time?
I've run shops with 6 months between IPLs, or longer.
With the technology dividend, I thought ICFs, and other specialty engines were going down in price.
The first I dealt with was $125K, and the last was $75K (USD). [...]105_2085626356-1272665909-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1280443603-@bda026.bisx.prod.on.blackberry
5047 38 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?11_Ted MacNEIL18_eamacneil@YAHOO.CA31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 22:39:11 +0000346_- >For big or small companies, the upgrade project still is high risk, expensive,
Aside from the version cost, I disagree.
Put in the ERLY code, and, in a datasharing environment, it's not high risk.
Expensive is a matter of definition.
>and often adds little or no real tangible value as in you can save X hard dollars. [...]104_1198443563-1272667138-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-696419036-@bda026.bisx.prod.on.blackberry
5086 112 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?12_Myron Miller22_myronwmiller@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 17:54:16 -0700582_us-ascii In order to have a machine with enough LPARs to be able to do sysplex even reasonably efficiently, you need a machine a bit larger than a single machine. And that can and has put shops into a totally different software class. And the real issue here isn't so much the DB2/Z/OS costs which of course are higher, but the significantly increased costs for third party software. One shop went up by 50 mips (a relatively small increase in today's environment) and it cost them well over $1,000,000 that's over 1 million dollars just for the third party software increased [...]44_846537.90182.qm@web112101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com
5199 306 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?12_Myron Miller22_myronwmiller@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 18:02:06 -0700588_iso-8859-1 And when the upgraded software breaks existing app's because of new found bugs in the software. IBM said nobody would ever do that, yeah. That happens. I've been there and have the scars. And the publicity for the newly upgraded software breaking. How about that?: Worth it? It happens on both sides, so that's not an argument for or against. Think of all the companies that "upgraded" their software and then had major problems. Think of Canada Airlines for one this year when they upgraded their reservations software. And Jet Blue taking a loss in the quarter due to a [...]42_69971.6965.qm@web112103.mail.gq1.yahoo.com
5506 92 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?12_Myron Miller22_myronwmiller@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 18:13:57 -0700515_us-ascii I've worked in both large and in small. I've been bleeding edge and very very backword. One shop had me attempt to make some changes to IMS (but they were two versions behind). It took not a few discussions to get reasonably current (about 9 months). Being really current on DB2 can be good or bad (think of all the PE'd ptfs, especially on V6 and V7. And does anybody remember V3 of DB2 and how well it worked for a while. How many went to V6 from V5 or did they go from V5 directly to V7 (and why?) [...]43_116485.5671.qm@web112104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com
5599 222 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?12_Myron Miller22_myronwmiller@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 18:16:02 -0700638_iso-8859-1 Excellent summary. And a set of good points for management. That's the real key. Selling management of the benefits. ________________________________ From: "Taddei, Cathy" To: DB2-L@IDUGDB2-L.ORG Sent: Fri, April 30, 2010 2:49:39 PM Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Why do a DB2 Upgrade? I tried taking that "I don't need to update" stance when my husband wanted to upgrade my G4 Powerbook from Tiger to Leopard. I remonstrated and stalled for nearly a year, but he finally prevailed this week. I had to upgrade a couple of programs, and threw away some that I decided I didn't really need. It wasn't as [...]44_523216.52022.qm@web112112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com
5822 110 25_Re: Why do a DB2 Upgrade?35_Joel Goldstein - Responsive Systems26_joel@RESPONSIVESYSTEMS.COM31_Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:33:54 -0400568_iso-8859-1 Nobody mentioned the fun factor of playing with all the new bells and whistles......
It 's late on Friday.
Have a good weekend.
Joel
Joel Goldstein
Responsive Systems
IBM Gold Consultant
Buffer Pool Tool for DB2, the worldwide industry standard
Performance software that works...... Predicts IO Rate !!
Predicts Group Buffer Pool performance too
www.responsivesystems.com
Buffer Pool Tool for DB2 on www.LinkedIn.com
Watch the 3-Minute Buffer Pool Tool Movie at: www.responsivesystems.com/Movie1 [...]46_7ED26C947A0246B0B8B69AA8EB15E60D@DellNotebook3